i2m with vibraphone?

The i2M musicport™ MIDI Converter & Hi-Z USB Audio Interface

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omvibes
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:40 pm

i2m with vibraphone?

Post by omvibes »

Hi,
I'm interested in using the i2m with my vibraphone, but wanted to ask some questions before taking the plunge.
Firstly, I've tried using a Roland Gi10 and also the G2m ipad app to achieve my aim of generating midi signals, but both times I have found that tracking has been a problem, especially in the lowest half-octave of the instrument (middle C to F below middle C), due I would assume to the number of harmonics and overtones that the instrument produces by its very nature. Is the i2m significantly better than the app equivalent (I assume the Roland is rather outdated technology), and are there options in the software to compensate for tracking issues?
Also, I think there are slight variations in the output of the pickups I use on the vibraphone (it's an old Deagan Electravibe, 70s technology at its finest!), can this be compensated for in the software?
Any other recommendations or guidelines for what I could do to ensure that the i2m works as well as possible?
I know that a guy in New York, Steve Shapiro, seems to be successfully using the G2m with his vibraphone set up (he has posted videos), would this this be a better fit for my requirements (the i2m spec seems to be better in principle, but...)?
Any input appreciated, thanks!
Oli
gegates
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by gegates »

Hey omnivibes.

James probably can provide better guidance, but I'll say this: the i2M tracking works pretty darn well. I am experimenting with it on a Tenor Sax, which is a very buzzy and bright instrument and at current I'm probably getting about 95% accuracy. This is with an ambient mic; sax pickups are really another deal altogether.

I'd have to think based on my experience the i2M would fit your needs. A vibraphone's overtones, while bright, are still much purer than a sax. Add to that the attack is much more consistent.

Granted, the vibraphone is going to work much better with percussive MIDI patches, whereas a sax with breath responsive instruments...but there's not much the i2M could do there.

James also seems pretty responsive to meeting our needs...I continue to tweak here and there and have found with eq I'm getting even more accurate; just need to solve the last problem when I roll this out in a live environment I will need to filter out other horns in the horn section and the drums. Not much other stage volume besides the bass amp but that is at least easier since it is lower frequency and the i2M has a note gate capability.
omvibes
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by omvibes »

Hi, thanks for the reply, good to hear. James, could you give me some further guidance?
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james
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by james »

Hi,

Both the G2M and i2M should work (as Steve has shown!). Both use the same technology, but the i2M can have its firmware upgraded (which has happened several times) to add improvements. And the editor does help you tweak it to get better results. If you are connecting to a computer/iPad, the i2M is definitely the way to go.

I think what will make the biggest difference is damping the notes to ensure you only have (as far as possible) one note playing at a time. When two or more notes combine, the beating between harmonics can cause problems with the fast MIDI conversion (for example, a beating note might look like a fast trill).

You can't easily compensate for different pickup output because the i2M assumes a reasonably constant level between notes. But it can still have some variation: a bass or guitar has quite a big variation between the lowest open notes, and the highest fretted notes.

James
omvibes
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by omvibes »

Hi James, thanks for the input. Sounds like it is worth trying out, I'll put an order in, and see how it goes, especially with the technique and playing consderations you mentioned.
Another quick question, in terms of midi sustain, there was a thread on the forum a while back where a guy wanted to sustain notes generated using a sustain pedal, I think he eventually found a usb hub/ connector which would do this in conjunction with the i2m. My question is though, if I was to try to add something like that into the chain, would the i2m allow me to do 'afterpedalling' (the standard vibraphone technique, whereby you play a note and depress the sustain pedal slightly afterwards to sustain the note - similar to what you do with a piano), or would any sustain pedal set-up need to be depressed before the note was played (taking into consideration that a 'dry' vibraphone note decays almost instantly). I assume probably the latter, based on midi limitations, but....?
Oli
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james
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by james »

This will work with the i2M.

The sustain pedal needs to be pressed before the note is stopped, so you can press it before or after the note is played and you'll get the same result. Essentially, when the "note-off" is processed, if the sustain pedal is held, it ignores the note-off.

Because the i2M is monophonic, it also processes sustain monophonically. So if you play another note while sustain is holding a previous note, the new note will be played and the first note will be stopped. It might be possible to extend this to be polyphonic so that all notes played while sustain is held keep going (as on a piano), but I will need to check if this is possible in a firmware update.
omvibes
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by omvibes »

Ok, so if I understand correctly, in practice...I play a note and sustain it using the vibraphone sustain pedal, then depress the other sustain pedal which sends midi signals, to keep the note on indefinitely, right?
With reference to the other thread regarding sustain, if I buy a usb hub (powered, or is it not important?) and plug both the i2m and the sustain pedal in (the latter using the 'Midi expression' plug the other poster found), and then send everything out of the hub to my ipad using the camera connection kit, then it should work fine?
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james
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by james »

You might not need to use the vibraphone sustain pedal. If the MIDI sustain pedal is pressed, a short note on the vibraphone will still be sustained.

Another thing occurred to me too. If the MIDI sustain is directed to the synth rather than the i2M, it will work just like a piano sustain and probably give you what you want. In which case you can ignore the sustain feature of the i2M: single notes on the i2M will be sent to the synth and the synth will sustain these until you release the sustain pedal.

When connecting to an iPad you'll probably need a powered hub to support the i2M and other devices. The i2M on its own doesn't need a powered hub, so it depends on the current requirements of the other devices (MIDI sustain pedal, and the hub itself).

So I think you'll have a setup like this:

Code: Select all

<iPad> - <Camera Connection Kit> - <HUB> - <i2M> - <Vibraphone>
                                         - <USB Sustain pedal interface> - <sustain footswitch> 
The USB Sustain pedal and the i2M will both send MIDI to the iPad synth. If the synth supports the sustain controller (which it should) it should work as described above.
omvibes
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by omvibes »

Thanks for the info, James, all useful. I ordered a i2m yesterday, lookng forward to experimenting with it.
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james
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Re: i2m with vibraphone?

Post by james »

Thanks for your order. An please let us all know how you get on!
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