Hello all,
So I'm a new i2M user and thought I might use this device to fill in some things here and there in my band. We have a three piece horn section, and occasionally Id like to pop out a few bari notes or maybe double trumpet, maybe even do some crazy synth stuff.
I have a Shure SLX series wireless with a clip on beta 98 condenser mic. I connected the i2M to the 1/4 TS out (the balanced connection is going to the main board). Had some mis matches with the pitch bend ranges and tweaked them, however I am still getting some random notes that are way out whack. I'd say 80-90% accuracy. Curious as to whether anyone has any ideas what might be going on here. It's like the i2M is triggering on an overtone or resonance somewhere. Certain notes come out with the same off note fairly repeatedly.
I tweaked the range on the midi screen and this filtered out the higher notes (and now nothing sounds). This is why I think it's on the detection side.
Was really hoping this set up would work, needs to be fairly reliable for my environment though. I may try eq if I can get my hands on something appropriate.
i2M with tenor sax
Re: i2M with tenor sax
Can you do a recording of what's going into the i2M? Ideally, record the audio using the i2M and save this as a WAV file (so there is no compression artifacts on the audio). Then send me a PM and I'll reply with my email address where you can send the recording.
Sometimes if we can look at the audio we can see what's going on and give some suggestions.
Sometimes if we can look at the audio we can see what's going on and give some suggestions.
Re: i2M with tenor sax
Sounds like a plan. I'll try to get something recorded today and send it over to you. Definitely hoping you can help me here!
Re: i2M with tenor sax
Hi James,
Been really busy with my job and only had a few minutes to mess around last night; not enough to get the audio file. I'm off tomorrow and might take a minute or two to get that in the can.
I did have about 5 minutes last night to play, I put in an junky EQ pedal I had to significantly roll off any high frequencies past 600 Hz or so, given the fundamental of a tenor sax doesn't reach much past that. This significantly helped with higher order overtones that were triggering the i2M into wrong notes. Now I just have some octave bounce happening. It is particularly prevalent on two particular fingerings so I'm assuming either I've whacked out the overtone sequence too much so the i2M is confused, or maybe the fundamental frequency just isn't strong enough.
I am using a very bright mouthpiece for a rock band.
Another thing I noticed, is that sometimes the i2M will trigger on very low background sounds, but other times not. I'm considering using this in a live band with 3 other horns nearby, a bass amp, and an acoustic drum kit. Any idea how this will fare? We've gone mostly with in ear monitoring so there isn't a lot of other stage noise now thankfully. I'm planning to take it to a practice session soon just to see how it reacts. I'm sure a noise gate would probably help, but I ran out of space in my current rack. Kinda wish that Behringer or Mackie would release an ultra compact 1U mixer with ipad interface where I could take the sax signal, add noise gate, EQ, and level control, and then head it into the i2M. I might be able to get the sound guy to do this for me with the mainboard, but that doesn't help me for practicing at home.
Been really busy with my job and only had a few minutes to mess around last night; not enough to get the audio file. I'm off tomorrow and might take a minute or two to get that in the can.
I did have about 5 minutes last night to play, I put in an junky EQ pedal I had to significantly roll off any high frequencies past 600 Hz or so, given the fundamental of a tenor sax doesn't reach much past that. This significantly helped with higher order overtones that were triggering the i2M into wrong notes. Now I just have some octave bounce happening. It is particularly prevalent on two particular fingerings so I'm assuming either I've whacked out the overtone sequence too much so the i2M is confused, or maybe the fundamental frequency just isn't strong enough.
I am using a very bright mouthpiece for a rock band.
Another thing I noticed, is that sometimes the i2M will trigger on very low background sounds, but other times not. I'm considering using this in a live band with 3 other horns nearby, a bass amp, and an acoustic drum kit. Any idea how this will fare? We've gone mostly with in ear monitoring so there isn't a lot of other stage noise now thankfully. I'm planning to take it to a practice session soon just to see how it reacts. I'm sure a noise gate would probably help, but I ran out of space in my current rack. Kinda wish that Behringer or Mackie would release an ultra compact 1U mixer with ipad interface where I could take the sax signal, add noise gate, EQ, and level control, and then head it into the i2M. I might be able to get the sound guy to do this for me with the mainboard, but that doesn't help me for practicing at home.
Re: i2M with tenor sax
The i2M does filter the signal internally so you shouldn't need to do this externally. Setting the "instrument" to bass (4 or 5 string) will add more high-frequency filtering compared to the guitar / wind setting.
Saying that, harmonics are not a bad thing. The i2M will recognise these and use them to work out the correct note. But you can get problems if the fundamental is very low, and the harmonic content.
Do you have "Voice/Wind" selected as the instrument on the i2M? This is the same as "Guitar" but has some subtle differences related to harmonics and the fundamental. I'd suggest to try both Guitar and Voice/Wind to see if there is a difference.
Background noise -- the i2M adjusts to what you play, so once it has seem a big signal, it effectively has its own noise gate to remove low-level background sounds. It can only do this if the input signal doesn't clip. Does the logo on the i2M light-up red to indicate clipping? If so turn down the pre-amp gain on the i2M, or on your signal chain before the i2M.
Saying that, harmonics are not a bad thing. The i2M will recognise these and use them to work out the correct note. But you can get problems if the fundamental is very low, and the harmonic content.
Do you have "Voice/Wind" selected as the instrument on the i2M? This is the same as "Guitar" but has some subtle differences related to harmonics and the fundamental. I'd suggest to try both Guitar and Voice/Wind to see if there is a difference.
Background noise -- the i2M adjusts to what you play, so once it has seem a big signal, it effectively has its own noise gate to remove low-level background sounds. It can only do this if the input signal doesn't clip. Does the logo on the i2M light-up red to indicate clipping? If so turn down the pre-amp gain on the i2M, or on your signal chain before the i2M.
Re: i2M with tenor sax
I have played around with the gain to get it so it clips only very periodically. I definitely want the i2M only triggering on my close-mic'ed cardioid on my sax. Maybe it happens after I unplug/restart or reconfigure the i2M. Basically to date I plug the i2M into laptop, set gain, play with settings, then plug into the iConnectMIDI and test the configuration with sound module. I have tried running it into the module via the laptop but ran into some issues which were probably latency related.
The i2M is set to voice/wind for all 4 modes right now. I hadn't considered changing it but that is definitely a good point on the Bass or Guitar settings. Do you have any specs anywhere on the frequency responses for each? Will have to play around more; it'd be nice to not have to add too many out board effects.
I think a GREAT future suggestion would be to have the ability to set up EQ and noise gate functions in the editor app!
The i2M is set to voice/wind for all 4 modes right now. I hadn't considered changing it but that is definitely a good point on the Bass or Guitar settings. Do you have any specs anywhere on the frequency responses for each? Will have to play around more; it'd be nice to not have to add too many out board effects.
I think a GREAT future suggestion would be to have the ability to set up EQ and noise gate functions in the editor app!
Re: i2M with tenor sax
Regarding the level, the OS can sometimes change the "volume" setting (i.e., input gain). If you setup the i2M on one computer than use it on a second, the second may put the volume back the what it was the last time it saw that device. Sometimes this is convenient, often it isn't.
The i2M editor has an "exclusive" mode for the level control. If you make sure you enable this the OS won't be able to control the level, and only the i2M editor can do it. This at least lets you know the level won't change.
The filter cutoff in different modes is roughly: 1kHz (5-string bass); 1.2kHz (4-string bass); 1.5kHz (guitar, voice, wind). But it's not a brick-wall filter at those frequencies, there is some roll-off going upwards.
The i2M does have something similar to a noise gate. The "velocity filter" will ignore low-level signals that give rise to notes with a MIDI velocity below a certain value. It gives the same effect as a noise gate without having to worry about having an instant attack on a noise gate that would be required to avoid the initial front of a new note being lost.
The i2M editor has an "exclusive" mode for the level control. If you make sure you enable this the OS won't be able to control the level, and only the i2M editor can do it. This at least lets you know the level won't change.
The filter cutoff in different modes is roughly: 1kHz (5-string bass); 1.2kHz (4-string bass); 1.5kHz (guitar, voice, wind). But it's not a brick-wall filter at those frequencies, there is some roll-off going upwards.
The i2M does have something similar to a noise gate. The "velocity filter" will ignore low-level signals that give rise to notes with a MIDI velocity below a certain value. It gives the same effect as a noise gate without having to worry about having an instant attack on a noise gate that would be required to avoid the initial front of a new note being lost.