Various usability questions

For the Wahoo™ Dual-Analogue, Digitally-Controlled Wah/Filter Pedal

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gastric
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:01 pm

Various usability questions

Post by gastric »

Just received my unit and have been putting it through the paces and have the following usability questions. I'll likely have many, many questions along the way so please quote my original questions in your replies so I know which questions your replies apply to.

Thanks! :)


* Are you going to continue not providing a power adapter, or at least a 6' USB cable, with these pedals? It was very frustrating not having everything I needed to start playing with the pedal supplied on the factory box. I've not personally purchased any other expensive pedal that requires a somewhat unusual power source not include a power brick or wall wart power source. And 500ma power sources aren't necessarily on hand.

* Is there any way to control the retrigger sensitivity of the envelope control? I've played with various SENSITIVITY and RESPONSE CURVE settings but the filter always seems to open, then never fully close, when playing repetitive notes that are even even mildly fast. I can get nice envelope performance on slower, playing but fast staccato playing trips and keeps the filter open compared to other filters.

* Is there a way to assign the expression pedal to sweep beat divisions when using MIDI CLOCK? This would be a common dubstep type use.

* Is there a way to assign the expression pedal to sweep beat divisions when using TAP TEMPO? Not sure how that'd possibly work since you're already using the expression to tap the tempo.

* What is the PUNCH control when setting the unit to envelope? This is seen on the current Mac editor app. The value changes, though the knob doesn't seem to visually change position, and there's no obvious audible effect. I didn't quickly find anything about it in the user manual.
gastric
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:01 pm

Re: Various usability questions

Post by gastric »

gastric wrote:What is the PUNCH control when setting the unit to envelope? This is seen on the current Mac editor app. The value changes, though the knob doesn't seem to visually change position, and there's no obvious audible effect. I didn't quickly find anything about it in the user manual.
Problem identified. I had an older 1.0.x version of the firmware, but the latest version of the Editor application. The Editor can detect and report the firmware version on the device and should probably remove unsupported features from the UI to prevent these types of issues. Better yet, have the Editor internet aware, check the server for the latest firmware, and notify me when one is available and help me download and install it.

However, I could not use the Editor to update my firmware. I would connect via USB, the Editor detected my device and could edit patches, but when I chose to update the firmware the Editor hung and the device simply reported UPD but nothing happened. I had to download and use the dedicated Firmware Updater which worked without issue. And now the Punch feature in the Editor works correctly.

Potentially related, your firmware instructions tell the user to boot the device in UPD mode. However, if you manually put the device in UPD mode the Editor will hang and be unresponsive.
gastric wrote:Is there any way to control the retrigger sensitivity of the envelope control? I've played with various SENSITIVITY and RESPONSE CURVE settings but the filter always seems to open, then never fully close, when playing repetitive notes that are even even mildly fast. I can get nice envelope performance on slower, playing but fast staccato playing trips and keeps the filter open compared to other filters.
I still haven't gotten this to where I want, though I'm close. I've dialed down the master sensitivity to -10, then dialed up the patch sensitivity to 585, while applying a fast attack and a zero decay and a LO5 response curve to keep the filter from zipping to full open so fast. It's close, but no cigar yet. I've done everything I can think of to help drive the filter open quickly, but allow it to zero back down as fast as possible. The note-to-note retriggering on envelope just seems slower than it could (should) be, it doesn't totally zero out each time, or something is keeping the filter riding in the higher range more. I haven't figured it out yet.

Here's the patch I'm using for testing retriggering and general envelope-up filtering.
Bass_Fast_Env_Up_01.wahoo
Basic Bass Envelope Up Filter
(396 Bytes) Downloaded 669 times
Here's a quickie sound clip that uses a P bass, BOSS RC-2 loop so everything's getting the 100% same input, gated fuzz, then I demo a Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer, Zoom B3 M-filter, then the Sonuus Wahoo using the patch above. Any suggestions for getting the Wahoo closer to the Squeezer would be great. I totally realize every filter sounds different and they don't all perform the same. :)

Just to clarify my operating environment:

2008 Macbook Pro
OS X 10.7.5
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james
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by james »

* Are you going to continue not providing a power adapter, or at least a 6' USB cable, with these pedals? It was very frustrating not having everything I needed to start playing with the pedal supplied on the factory box. I've not personally purchased any other expensive pedal that requires a somewhat unusual power source not include a power brick or wall wart power source. And 500ma power sources aren't necessarily on hand.
Currently, we have no plans to include a power adapter. This is to keep the cost of the unit down. Adding a universal power supply adds more cost, requires larger packaging, increases shipping costs. And we feel customers would rather have the Wahoo available at lower cost, particularly since it can use most standard power supplies. 300mA supplies will work fine as long as you don't set the LED intensity to maximum -- but for certfication purposes we have to rate it to the maximum possible, hence 500mA.

Including a USB cable may be an option for the future though. We do include a USB cable with the i2M musicport, for example.
* Is there a way to assign the expression pedal to sweep beat divisions when using MIDI CLOCK? This would be a common dubstep type use.
Not yet, but this has been requested a few times. It's something we will look at for a future update.
* Is there a way to assign the expression pedal to sweep beat divisions when using TAP TEMPO? Not sure how that'd possibly work since you're already using the expression to tap the tempo.
I imagine that might be hard to make useable -- it might start changing tempo when you don't want it to!
* What is the PUNCH control when setting the unit to envelope? This is seen on the current Mac editor app. The value changes, though the knob doesn't seem to visually change position, and there's no obvious audible effect. I didn't quickly find anything about it in the user manual.
Punch was added in a firmware update, so isn't described in the paper manual, but is in the downloadable pdf manual. This is an extract from the manual:

"Pun lets you accentuate the filter response to new notes by providing a boost in sensitivity but only for new note edges, thus making it easier to create punchier, more dynamic sounds. This effect is most obvious with low values of SEn and dEC."

As you found, the older version of firmware you had didn't support this, so it didn't work.

Automatic firmware version detection and updating is something we have thought about and we may look at in the future.
However, I could not use the Editor to update my firmware. I would connect via USB, the Editor detected my device and could edit patches, but when I chose to update the firmware the Editor hung and the device simply reported UPD but nothing happened. I had to download and use the dedicated Firmware Updater which worked without issue. And now the Punch feature in the Editor works correctly.
It sounds like you didn't have the Firmware Updater installed. On OSX, this also needs to be in the same folder as the editor before the update will work. It should have given you a message to tell you why it had failed, telling you that the updater app couldn't be found. Did it not do this? Now you have this installed, if it's in the same folder as the editor, future firmware updates should be seamless.

The firmware updater updates all Sonuus products, not just the Wahoo, that's why its a separate application.

In Update mode, the editor cannot recognise the Wahoo. This is by design. After you run the Firmware Updater and close it, it will reboot the Wahoo into normal Mode and the editor will see it again.
Here's a quickie sound clip that uses a P bass, BOSS RC-2 loop so everything's getting the 100% same input, gated fuzz, then I demo a Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer, Zoom B3 M-filter, then the Sonuus Wahoo using the patch above. Any suggestions for getting the Wahoo closer to the Squeezer would be great. I totally realize every filter sounds different and they don't all perform the same. :)
I am literally just back from MusikMesse in Germany, so haven't had a chance to look at this in any detail. But, here are some quick thoughts for you:

(1) make sure you have a fast decay set, this will ensure the filter can fall as quickly as the input signal falls.

(2) use (as you have found) a "lo" filter response curve. Try lo-9 to lo-5, something around there.

(3) Use the new punch feature. Set punch high, and set sensitivity low. This will let the initial note attack push the filter to a high point, then it will decay quickly because the level of the envelope driving the filter will be lower (sensitivity is low).

(4) keep the attack fast (set to 0).

So, a combination of these should let the filter rise higher, quickly, and also decay quickly too, so it is more responsive to fast playing.

Don't play with the master sensitivity and the patch sensitivity to try and get this, because these are essentially the same thing. The master sensitivity applies a global scaling to the patch sensitivity so that the same patches can sound similar on instruments with different input levels. Best to set the master to 0, as your starting point. Keep the patch sensitivity low, but increase punch to get the contrast between the note attack and the post-transient decay.
gastric
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:01 pm

Re: Various usability questions

Post by gastric »

james wrote:
However, I could not use the Editor to update my firmware. I would connect via USB, the Editor detected my device and could edit patches, but when I chose to update the firmware the Editor hung and the device simply reported UPD but nothing happened. I had to download and use the dedicated Firmware Updater which worked without issue. And now the Punch feature in the Editor works correctly.
It sounds like you didn't have the Firmware Updater installed. On OSX, this also needs to be in the same folder as the editor before the update will work. It should have given you a message to tell you why it had failed, telling you that the updater app couldn't be found. Did it not do this? Now you have this installed, if it's in the same folder as the editor, future firmware updates should be seamless.
I did not have the Firmware Updater installed at all, I don't recall seeing any documentation directing me to do that. Really, the firmware update documetation on your website I saw was confusing. Again, it told me to manually put the device into UPD but then after I did that the instructions said the Edit can do that automatically (but I'd just followed the directions telling me to do it manually).

No message was presented by the Editor. However, the app appeared to have hung as it was not responsive so perhaps a message was invoked but it was not visible for whatever reason (message is behind the app, app is now modal?).

Related, it's a tiny bit cumbersome to find software to download on your site.

* Click Downloads
* See a picture of the Wahoo
* Click it
* You see videos to stream but no software to download - confusing. It actually takes you back to the Wahoo product page to the Demos section.
* Click Products
* Click Wahoo
* Click Editor
* See all manner of great info and screenshots but no links to download it
* Finally realize there's a tiny button at the top left for Demos & Documents vs Software and am presented with another page with lists of information and screenshots but none of it includes direct links to download the firmware/software/editor/etc. that it's describing, you have to click a text link at the top of the page.
* This requires you to register and sign in.
* However the cookie appears to expire fairly quickly (my guess, did not thoroughly test) so when I left my browser on the page overnight, came back the next day, I couldn't download until I logged out-and-back-in again.

I don't find your website totally unusable. It's just not as usable as it could be. It's a lot of text and images without a lot of visual separators, borders, etc. and the floating buttons work great for header nav as they are in a bounded area with a contrasting background, but the floating button nav on the pages themselves aren't quite as obvious.

Note I'm being pretty nit picky in general. Just sharing my thoughts as I use your product. I have high hopes for the product in general as I've always wanted a digitally controlled analog filter that basically functions as a VST in a pedal format and provides presets and lots of parameter control. The Chunk Octavious Squeezer doesn't have expression control and has limited LFO and external user control in general and no USB, though it sounds great and has presets (and is 2x as expensive as the Wahoo). Source Audio's BEF Pro offers a lot, but limited presets, no USB, and is fully digital. I've had a couple of rack filters such as the MAM Warp9 which had a ton of great features but the rack format isn't conducive to ease of use for most guitar/bass players.

Again, high, High, HIGH hopes for the Wahoo. :)

I think the fact that you can program it via software, and that it's digitally controlled which theoretically means you can provide a wide range of features beyond what the hardware UI offers should make it extremely robust as you continue to improve the firmware and editor.
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james
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by james »

I agree that a few extra links to the software downloads wouldn't be a bad idea. As the site has grown, things have moved around a bit and I an see now there is only one link "SOFTWARE" to the software downloads.
gastric
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by gastric »

james wrote:
Here's a quickie sound clip that uses a P bass, BOSS RC-2 loop so everything's getting the 100% same input, gated fuzz, then I demo a Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer, Zoom B3 M-filter, then the Sonuus Wahoo using the patch above. Any suggestions for getting the Wahoo closer to the Squeezer would be great. I totally realize every filter sounds different and they don't all perform the same. :)
I am literally just back from MusikMesse in Germany, so haven't had a chance to look at this in any detail. But, here are some quick thoughts for you:

(1) make sure you have a fast decay set, this will ensure the filter can fall as quickly as the input signal falls.

(2) use (as you have found) a "lo" filter response curve. Try lo-9 to lo-5, something around there.

(3) Use the new punch feature. Set punch high, and set sensitivity low. This will let the initial note attack push the filter to a high point, then it will decay quickly because the level of the envelope driving the filter will be lower (sensitivity is low).

(4) keep the attack fast (set to 0).

So, a combination of these should let the filter rise higher, quickly, and also decay quickly too, so it is more responsive to fast playing.

Don't play with the master sensitivity and the patch sensitivity to try and get this, because these are essentially the same thing. The master sensitivity applies a global scaling to the patch sensitivity so that the same patches can sound similar on instruments with different input levels. Best to set the master to 0, as your starting point. Keep the patch sensitivity low, but increase punch to get the contrast between the note attack and the post-transient decay.

I've set Master Sensitivity = 0 and attempted to play with the Punch control. However, it doesn't seem to have the effect I want. I do seem to get almost desired behavior by really tweaking the Curve and Sensitivity. I just don't think the filter is fast enough.

Here's another patch and another sound clip for a downswept envelope filter. Here you hear the fuzz only, then the Squeezer again, then Zoom A-Filter in a down sweep (M-filter only up-sweeps), then the Wahoo.
Bass_Fast_Env_Down_01.wahoo
Down swept envelope filter
(396 Bytes) Downloaded 679 times
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james
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by james »

Thanks for posting the audio files and the Wahoo preset, it's very useful.

I've not had time to investigate fully, but I think the problem is with the envelope tracker in the Wahoo not falling quickly enough to track the gaps between the notes. However, this is implemented in firmware, so can be changed.

We will look at this in more detail, though it make take a bit of time to analyse it fully.
gastric
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by gastric »

james wrote:...I think the problem is with the envelope tracker in the Wahoo not falling quickly enough to track the gaps between the notes. However, this is implemented in firmware, so can be changed...
That was my initial guess as well. I'm using the tightest gated fuzz I've personally owned which trips most filters as fast as possible. In the past I've tested filter retrigger speed using a Boss Slicer as you can produce square wave hard edges and then slowly ramp up the speed until you determine the absolute fastest possible retrigger the envelope-based effect can support.

Next question: I swear when I first installed the Editor app and was using the original firmware that every single LFO waveform supported the r.up and r.down parameters so you could create some really crazy and lopsided sounding LFOs. Using my current setup only Trapezoid supports r.up and r.down. It's possible I'm mistaken, but even if that's true there's no real reason not to support r.up and r.down for all of the other waveforms.

Thanks for entertaining all of my comments, critiques, suggestions, etc. It's really a pleasure when companies respond directly to customers. :)

Keep up the good work.
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james
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by james »

Gated fuzz -- yes, it is a very useful test. It will be fun for us to use these samples to get this working better.

Regarding the LFOs, the Ramp-up and Ramp-down are only available on the trapezoid because these parameters essentially shape the edge of a square wave to have different ramps on each side. So, you can go from square (ramps all =0) to triangle (ramps both =50), and of course get lop-sided waveforms.

What kind of things are you thinking of doing with the LFOs? Ramp may not be the best parameter for other waveshapes, but maybe there is something else that will work?
Thanks for entertaining all of my comments, critiques, suggestions, etc. It's really a pleasure when companies respond directly to customers. :)
We do try. Not only does it help us make better products, but it ensures our customers feel valued and have some input into their products. It's also fun to share thoughts with enthusiastic, like-minded people!
gastric
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Re: Various usability questions

Post by gastric »

james wrote:What kind of things are you thinking of doing with the LFOs? Ramp may not be the best parameter for other waveshapes, but maybe there is something else that will work?
I'm not personally likely to use LFOs at all in reality. But I know there's a small but dedicated group of electric bass players always on the hunt for powerful dub step capable pedal effects that can produce the wob-wob-wob they're looking for. Get a quality video showing a variable-rate, clock-synced dub-steppy wobble produced with a 4 string bass guitar and that crowd will go wild.

But when I was originally playing with clock sync I was having some issues where the LFO seemed to be off-tempo from the DAW generated clock and it was due to r.up / r.down which I swear I had applied to a Sine and/or Triangle wave. But I could be totally mistaken. But I thought perhaps the newer Editor paired with the older firmware somehow allowed r.up/down to be applied incorrectly other waveforms.
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